ER: Homosexuality - The issue of the century for Christianity
from "When Religion Looses Credibility" at, http://eruditeredneck.blogspot.com/
SG: I think you're on to something here, ER. However for me it is not the content of this issue (one's sexual orientation), which is the critical issue, it is the structure of the 'problem', of the 'mind' exposed by it, which is at the 'heart' of the 'crisis'.
It seems to me that those who profess to be Christians are essential one of two sorts. They are either focused on Love and it inclusiveness, or they are focused on Evil and its exclusion. The languaging of the former, of Love, is "We & Us". The language of the latter is "Them & Us".
Pointing the Love alternatives out to the "Them & Us" folks and suggesting the "We" alternative is not only more positive but more Christian, does not provide convincing evidence at all. Incommensurably, quite the contrary.
It seems to provide evidence that you are arguing for the inclusion of Evil … which 'they' claim to Hate, as an act of luvin' God … a God who either was insufficiently Omniscient to realize Evil was sneaking into His creation from just beyond Omnipresence OR a God who intentionally created Evil so that He could replace the Omnipotence of Unconditional Love with Conditional Love so that everyone could squabble about having special access to and knowledge of 'IT', like a buncha seagulls squabbling over garbage, like they do over at the Trucker-Tugger's, et al, in Da Dark.
Difference amidst Incommensurability is a problem.
We all have a sense of things we think are right and true AND most of us think and believe differently. So what are we to do about that? How do we live 'there'? Go to Love, or Go to War … or is there 'Other'.
The 'Other' might be some sorta middle way, where you at least dialogue (or attempt to create it), where attempting to understand the other position(s) is practiced however inadequately, to see if there is any way of living together. Any way other than 'playing' gawd and wiping the 'other' out … the Mono-partisan 'SOLUTION', of which the Nazi 'Solution' for Jews, Gypsies, the sick, etc., is just one example, as is all genocide.
If we are NOT Mono-Partisan AND yet still have convictions, then in that struggle, we are NOT being exclusionary and exclusion is simply a position for which genocide is just the logical extension.
I think that is the ultimate question, be it human, Christian, Islam, etc. ...
DO WE or DO WE NOT practice GENOCIDE in the face of DIFFERENCE?
Snerd
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6 comments:
My response at my joint.
Lookit you! Tryin' to swipe my traffic!
:-)
Cocktail onions.
i always feel a little guilt when you start in on this subject, like you're throwing sideways glances at me.
but i'm paranoid and have a guilt complex....
coctail dress.
KEvron
KEv: … like you're throwing sideways glances at me.
SG: … Actually it is with 'straight'-on respect and with much appreciation for your presence. I always look forward to your commentary.
And no, I am not directing this "We" or "Them & Us" or "Other" at you - I think it applies to all of "Us". In fact I find when you 'express' yourself, you more often than not express what I am feeling. I too am really bothered with what I can best describe as the apparent refusal of these (R)z-Holes to think and particularly, think about their thinking … So there I am too, in all my "Them-ness".
What really p-i-s-s-e-s me off though, is when that conceitedly, un-self-examining view becomes invasive of, and active upon, what are for me 'progressive' human endeavours and intent. But mostly it is the zero sum prescription of 'Dominance as the solution to Difference' that is most dangerous and vexing - Genocide, whether figurative or actual. It is here that I think dialogue is most required …Christ! Most required!? It is imperative, in my belief system. It is here that I find myself 'compelled' … Compelled to establish a dialogue about our views/beliefs, NOT as a function of content, but as a function of our Systems of Validation.
Professing dialogue is not a particularly unique or insightful position. Al Franken talks to Luther and it has to be acknowledge, Luther to Al. Jim Baker, maybe the guy most responsible for creating Jr'z 'ascension' to the Presidential 'th(R)one-appointment', is saying you have to be able to talk to those who are having difficulty and disagreement with … hear the 'few dead-enders' and the Axis of Evil … AND they have to be involved in the process, as participants.
What IS particularly unique about it is, after the clear benefits of multilateralism since WWII, there exists a context in the 'advanced' western world, for which Neoconservativism's unilateral, homo-partisanship actually has currency. From whence this (R)egressive social gene? This slide into superstition*? How has the Enlightenment been so 'dimmed'?
At the fall of the Berlin Wall, some commentator said, 'It is unclear with Evil vanquished, whether a new period of peace will be ushered in or whether America will turn her shadow upon herself and so destruct from within.' What this prescient commentator missed was, ' … and then turn her pathology upon the world, amidst other with the same inclination.'
But this is where "We" are … A world in which the conceptual currency of Extremes threatens irrelevance for the middle and for moderation. AND, "We" are not all that different. "We" all possess cells, DNA, hate, despair, confusion and hope. There is always some of "Them" in "Us" - maybe that's why "We" reject "Them" most. "We" all sink or swim … or possibly end up preserving some high ground … together.
As Clinton said …'May be this is the way it should be'.
Snerd
*SUPERSTITION: (a definition for "Them" of "Us" what's interested)
1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.
a. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
c. Idolatry.
my favorite gogol bordello lyric:
of course, there is no "us" and "them"
but them, they do not think the same
the band's mission? they're out to end irony. i swear! that's what they've said!
KEvron
Are they 'Heavy Metal', KEv?
Snerd
no, they're gypsy punks.
i swear!
ukranian immigrants living in new york. a punk outfit with a disinctively eastern one-two beat. basic line-up; guitars, bass and drums. but they feature a gypsy violinist and an accordian player. during the course of a show, various members take turns on a bass drum. it's as much a stage prop/totem as an instrument.
in recent years, they've infused a multi-cultural aspect into their sound, adding ska and hiphop to their songwriting, as well as habanera, tango and salsa rhythms. their stage presentation is more akin to performance art, with costume changes and vignettes.
they sometimes self-depricatingly refer to their message as "east infection". the idea is that, as gypsies and punks and former soviets, they are insidiously spreading, as they go town to town, cultural revolution in the forms of counter-culturalism, multi-culturalism and skepticism, all with a touch of hedonism ("think locally, fuck globally"). it's all very tongue-in-cheek. "party" does, afterall, have more than one meaning.
this verse is quintessential gogol bordello:
i'm gathering a new generation,
that's ganna stand up to it,
to this karaoke
this karaoke dictatorship.
where posers and models with guitars,
boogie to the shit for beats,
i make a better rock revolution,
alone with my dick!
KEvron
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